If you walk down any street in China nowadays, you will be amazed at how fashionable people are becoming. But it is hard to imagine that 30 years ago, what everyone wore was no more than blue, gray and green.

In the late 1970s,“fashion”to most Chinese was a taboo since it was linked to a“western capitalist lifestyle”. People seemed to deliberately distance themselves from the colorful world. Today, along with the improvements to China’s overall national strength, the clothing sector has become a pillar industry for the country. China also boasts one of the world’s largest garment manufacturing industries and consumer markets. The man who helped trigger this change was French designer Pierre Cardin, the first western adventurer that preached fashion in China.

However, as Chinese people became more fashion-aware, his brand experienced ups and downs in this country.

How did a top foreign brand survive in a population with closed minds towards fashion? What are the best ways to save the once primary brand from losing its luster among the numerous

top-line labels in China?

To discuss these issues, we talked with Pierre Cardin, French fashion designer and owner of the fashion group“Pierre Cardin”.

Pierre Cardin was born into a poor French family in Italy in 1922. He quit school at the age of 14 and became a tailor’s apprentice. In 1947, he was appointed head of Christian Dior’s tailleure atelier. He set up his own design house in 1950 and began haute couture three years later. In 1954, he opened his first boutiques for men and women in Paris. In 1978, he made his first trip to China and set up his boutiques in the following years. He has been marketing in the country ever since.

Western Fashion adventurer

Q: Welcome to the Main talk

P: Hello, nice to meet you

Q: Thank you for being here. We still remember that very famous picture of you wearing a coat and a scarf walking on the streets of Beijing back in the late 1970’s

P: Yes, I remember very, very clearly. It was so extraordinary to see Beijing this period and to see Mack. Today Beijing for me is a dream. The dream was coming.

Q: You know that picture is very famous here in China. Pretty much everyone knows about it. And when you first came to China in the late‘70’s, what prompted to come to this country as a foreign fashion designer? At that time, the Chinese people didn’t really know that much about fashion.

P: It was not for fashion exactly when I was the first time here in Beijing or in China. It was for carpet. (Q: Oh, for carpet?) It was a Japanese man with a factory in Tianjin making carpet Pierre Cardin in that city. And he said to me,“will you come to see my factory in China”? It was the first experience for me to come to China for carpet, but after I came back again. I met so many people, and made friend, I met friend, and we were to give fashion. And, of course, it was my job fashion, and I met some ministries, and we talked for fashion. I started to make the fashion two years later.

In April 1979, Pierre Cardin’s first fashion show in China was staged in the Beijing Ethnic Cultural Palace. The skinny foreign models, delicate dresses, and relaxed catwalk created such a strong visual impact that the audience was left breathless.

Q: Was that a successful fashion show?

P: It was very hard for me to make the fashion show in China because they were not modern, and they were only the men who decided the fashion. All the people were in Mao brown or blue, navy blue or black.

Q: You wanted to add more color to the Chinese people, to what they were wearing.

P: In this period, there were not colors in the street. Inside of the coat, there were a lot of sweaters, the red, blue, violet, yellow, but outside all people wore called Mao. It’s very difficult to say it’s man or woman. They all wear the shirt. The hair was the same, the men.

Q: How did people in China respond to that fashion show that you did? Did they like it?

P: The first experience, I tell you, was only men, and you ask me if maybe I can make a school here or an exhibition or fashion show. I say ok. I come back with my fashion from Paris wearing by Chinese girls. And after, I ask the minister if it is possible to bring the girls to come to Paris to present my show on the Chinese girls, and it was fantastic successful.

Q: Was the government very helping and encouraging when you first entered China.

P: At the beginning, it was very hard to understand why I wanted the Chinese girls to come to Paris, and I said I wanted the girls to come, but I didn’t want dressing in Mao suit; I wanted them to dress in Chinese style in the past. He was very shocked, the Minster, but in any case, after a long time, the minister accepted my proposition.

Q: What about the girls? I mean at that time there were no model, fashion models in China.

P: They were not modern, but there were many beautiful girls, and I made the school with Madame Song. And so she kept, and she made the training in China. In 3 or 4 day they were very perfect model and different from the French or American in any case.

Q: At that time the Chinese girls were probably very shy. They were probably afraid of presenting themselves among the general public.

P: No. They were, of course, for the first presentation, a bit nervous, but just three or four times later it was perfect.

Q: What about the general public? What was their response to your fashion show here? Did they like it?

P: Of course, I think that’s the reason why I came back again to make the fashion show in the Great Wall, Tian’Anmen, Forbidden City. It was very extraordinary for me, for the first time, to work with my girls on the Great Wall and in the same time, in the Tian’Anmen Place, and Forbidden City. It was seen for the fist time in China. It was very revolutionary, but it was immediately successful.

In 1983, Pierre Cardin opened a branch of the century old French restaurant- Maxim’s de Paris in Beijing. The city’s first joint venture restaurant was also Cardin’s first investment in China.

P: I built Maxim restaurant not because it was a capitalist restaurant, but for making relation, making public relation, meeting people of any nationality in China. After I presented my show there, in Maxim restaurant, it became very successful immediately. And I tried to start with some licensing for clothes, women, men, shoes, tie, stocking, scarf, everything.

Q: Now, you mentioned the Maxim Restaurant, it’s also very famous, but at that time, people said you were just crazy by opening this restaurant in Beijing, because at that time people were earning 20, 30 Yuan a month. How could they afford such expensive allot?

P: It was not for money, just for meeting people. This was my intention, to be friendly to you. Meet some nice people to have one place where you could talk drinking beer or something else, but not for keeping money for the beginning. In any case I never keep money from today.

In 1984, the first Pierre Cardin boutique in Beijing opened, becoming the first international fashion brand to enter China.

Q: When did your first boutique in Beijing start to make money for you?

P: No. I lost much money in that time. It was not profitable for maybe ten year.

Q : Once you said your biggest dream is to sell buttons in China and you could make money because China is a huge market.

P : I tell this story when I am dreaming China business. One cent by day, nothing is one cent. One million cent by day or by year, you get 365 million cents by year. I was dreaming this. I think maybe I can sell one product Pierre Cardin with one cents profit by day. One million cents, it was something very so big.

Q: You said you lost a lot of money for almost ten years. So what did you do after ten years because, now as a business owner, you have to make money?

P: Now there is very good relation for my business here in China because now I have maybe 40 licensees. It’s a lot, and fortunately making money now, of course because I give assistance for technology for fashion, for line, for color, for material you know

Q: I grew up in Shanghai, and I can still vividly remember the Pierre Cardin boutique in Shanghai because it was very close to my home at that time. I can definitely remember because at that time it was like the only foreign fashion brand present in the area. I can still remember, of course, it’s not there anymore, but it was there for many years, but I never dared go into that boutique because it was very expensive.

P: But we started to come back again in Shanghai very soon. Open many boutique again, named brand Pierre Cardin, very soon.

Brand Licensing

Pierre Cardin pioneered the brand licensing system in China’s fashion industry. Although a very lucrative model, licensing has its pitfalls. It is very difficult to guarantee a brand image. Fashion Giant Yves Saint Laurent used to release more than 1000 licenses, which ended up tarnishing his brand’s image. The situation was changed only when the brand was purchased by the Gucci Group.

Q: Why did you choose to use the licensing model in China. It was kind of hard to control the quality of the licensees.

P: Yes. It was easier for me to make the clothes in China with the pattern and the sketch because China is very big country, and it was impossible to sail from Paris all of the clothes made in France because you need big factory in France and you need so many short time. Fashion is six month. You don’t get produced in France for all of China; the time is too short. I was better to give the chance to the Chinese people to produce the clothes with material Chinese, and the price was lower at the same time. It was better for my profit and for the profit for the Chinese people. It was better what I do, and a lot of people follow me after.

Q: Actually, a lot of people did follow you. They started using the licensing model, but are there any problems with the licensing model? One thing we can think about is copyright infringement.

P: Yes, sometimes is nice, something is not bad, but you see in fashion, luxury Louis Vuitton, every perfume, every thing they copied. Once they arrive, maybe a year of after. Some people they are so not important. They copy.

Q: So how could you solve this problem?

P: I can talk with my lawyer but it’s very difficult.

Q: Has this been a big problem for you, in China especially?

P: Everywhere in the world, not only in China. What you can do? It is a success when you are copied. You copied always a success.

Q: So you think when people actually copy yours

P: Because I am successful.

Q: Because you have been successful

P: In once sense is good, in one other sense is bad.

Q: But what happened in China? It was the top.

P: Because there are many, many people now know the fashion. Before, there are few people, the same proportions. Before there are few who know my name, now, there are so many.

Pierre Cardin’s 26 licensees contributed to its fast expansion, as well as its deterioration. Fangfang, CEO of Pierre Cardin China has been tackling this problem for a long time.

F: We have like 20 licensees, and they’re all doing their business on their own. It’s like the ties don’t match with the shirts and the shirts don’t match with the suits. So, they’re like different companies. Of course they’re different companies, so they’re all making their own business. It’s not a unified image. It’s very confusing for the consumers, and actually, they’re starting to do things that’s not really our style, because Pierre Cardin style is not traditional. We’re all but traditional. It’s very modern. Mr. Cardin is always very avant garde. So, he’s a pioneer. So, we wanted to actually make people see the real Pierre Cardin style.

But Pierre Cardin thought differently about his brand’s current situation in China.

P: In the world my name stays at first, in America in Europe. It’s fantastic, my name. In America is this way, in Europe too.

Q: Are you doing anything to move this brand back up again to the top level in China?

P: Now, before that was talent. Now it is commercial. Now, if you have money, you can make very beautiful store. You are nothing yesterday, but tomorrow you are big. It’s not same with my own talent Talent is not with money. If I want to make myself very big store everywhere, I become very high. It is a question of money. Since we try to make my own shop now very soon in Shanghai, in all the cities in China. Maybe next year, maybe we have 20 or 40 new shop Pierre Cardin. But the production in China is very good. Appreciate really. Good quality, good material, good talent. And, at the same time, I hope to come back to Shanghai to make very big show in Shanghai, to re-move my name you know.

Q: So you have to invest a lot of money in marketing as well.

P: Yes now it is marketing, you’re right. Now, money successful is marketing. You brand one name in two or three years.

Q: Just look at the fashion brands that are well done in Shanghai well established in China. Fendi, they did a fantastic show on the wall, on the Great Wall last year, and people are still talking about it today. It’s not just about the quality of your product and the design of your clothes, but it’s also about the marketing campaign they carry out for your brand.

P: I make that in the desert, Gobi, same time. You can imagine making a pass in the Gobi. But maybe we don’t spend so many money for advertise, you know. That is probably for money. I am talented. Some they are talented too, but more money.

Q: What do you think is the key for a fashion brand, for a foreign fashion brand to succeed in China today, given the competition that you have?

P: Now, is more now you are money more you are make clothes, but for few time. For me, it’s 62 year. It’s more different, you know. These brands are ten years, 20. Not same as myself.

Fashion Designer Cardin

After Word War II, Cardin raised the idea of“popularizing ready-to-wear”. In 1959, he launched the first ever ready-to-wear line for the Printemp Department Store in Paris. The move scandalized the fashion powers in France who expelled him from the Chambre Syndicale. Soon he was reinstated.

P: I am looking around me. There are rich women, intellectual women. They are not any more staying around with children, work in the street, and they are not any more time to make party, dinner party, all in home. And I say, she looks the same as peoples. And this is the reason why I said the fashion ready to wear is better than the haute culture. But, the creativity is different. You must create, but the haute culture is only for admiration, to be perfect.

Q: But did this have an influence on the position of your brand?

P: No, not at all

Q: Not at all?

P: Not at all, my brand is more and more grown up, but we don’t make publicity, advertising, but the respect is more everywhere when I go somewhere. There are a lot of promotions, publicity, advertising a lot.

Pierre Cardin is known for his avant garde style and his space age designs. He preferred geometric shapes and multiples. After ignoring the female form, he advanced into unisex fashion. Sometimes it’s experimental and not always practical. He introduced bubble dress in 1954.

P: My talent stays for 62 years, not by money.

Q: Are you still doing design youself?

P: Yes, of course, it is my pleasure. It’s my way to stay everyday in fashion in Paris. I am in theater. I am in restaurant. I am in hotel. I am many things, but what I like to do the best is, of course, fashion. I have a lot of different social positions, but what I like to do is fashion. My heart is same. I need to do fashion every day if I’m missing something.

Q: You are an artist in your heart.

P: Exactly, I am artist

Q: What about your business? There’s news or rumors that you were hoping someone else could buy your brand and then you know you could just focus on design or fashion.

P: Yes, because I am very old man. Now, I need to do make position. We are talking just today with my friend and my staff to prepare what will happen tomorrow. What will happen tomorrow, I don’t know.

Q: What kind of company do you want to buy your brand?

P: Maybe people knowing fashion, maybe people in fashion especially. American, Chinese, French, Germany, it doesn’t matter, but he must know the fashion. To keep my staff around the world if I sell, take care my staff. You must protect the name you know and to be talent around the name.

Q: We in China definitely want the brand Pierre Cardin to say forever and even if you sell your brand, we still hope this compay, this buyer who ever it is can keep and maintain the quality of this brand Pierre Cardin

P: Yes, if I have a good factory, a good taste for fashion, why not my name disappear.

Q: You have been a witness of the over the past 30 years of China’s fashion industry. How have you seen this industry has evolved in China?

P: Fantastic. You can find in China the best clothes, many materials. Factories is perfect. The taste is good. It is a new market today. For the old, before they are Europe, America, now is China.

Q: What do you see as the biggest difference because you’ve to China a couple of times?

P: I can’t tell you, it’s so big difference. It is impossible to say by word.

Q: Just in terms of fashion, in terms of what people wear.

P: The young people is fantastic, more fashion than Paris or for New York.

Apart from ready-to-wear, over the past three decades Pierre Cardin has used his brand to create socks, ties and even underwear. Nowadays, however, the man who first educated the Chinese market in fashion and luxury wear has been degraded to a common, middle of the road brand. The challenge that Pierre Cardin faces now is striking a balance between rapid expansion and regaining his once top-tier status among the world’s fashion elite.

                                   Dec,28th,2009     ICS

See also :   The Main Talk